Sunday, June 07, 2009

More advice

I showed my Frumster profile to a Facebook friend for his take on it.

This is how I describe myself: Smart, funny, fun, interesting. A bottomless well of trivia and passion. Not easily daunted or discouraged. Good listener, since that's what I do for a living. I like going out; I like staying in. I love being an aunt, and I'm exceptionally good at it.

Ultimately, I think you can enjoy anything -- from the opera to grocery shopping -- if you really enjoy the company of the person you're with.

This is what I am looking for in a mate: Good derech eretz.


Doesn't take himself too seriously.

Ready to take dating VERY seriously.

Preferably 5'7" or shorter. I do date tall men, but I *really* like short men.

I don't date men more than 10 years my senior, and vastly prefer men within a few years of my age.

I thought it was short and to the point, and gave enough information while making people want a little more.

This was my friend's response:

Doesn't take himself too seriously. Many men take themselves and their life goals very seriously. You might have a strike against you here.

Ready to take dating VERY seriously. Okay a reasonable request.

Preferably 5'7" or shorter. I do date tall men, but I *really* like short men. This would not be too bad as you are short but taller men might be turned off rather put down under 6 ft tall as then the distance is great and the couple turn heads.

I don't date men more than 10 years my senior, and vastly prefer men within a few years of my age. The first request would limit let us say put a cap on 15 years older as you are 39 but try to remember than a man 49 would probably look for a 32-34 year old.

I know men and what they are after -- that is if he wants kids. If not he is looking for 45 plus. You are not a spring chicken anymore but not somebody who would date a man around my age. Try to think what a man 39 - 54/55 would be looking for -- this is the greatest mistake that women make.

Marriage is compromise, compromise, compromise. No Compromise no marriage. Try to see what men like.

You also reveal very little if you are affectionate, want somebody who you can cuddle up to, etc. Men are not looking for a cook and a maid they also need affection and attention. Sort of advertise like Dale Carnegie writes what you can do for others.

I wrote to another woman who happens to be 44. She finally with my help defined what she is really looking for in a man. In short change your standards to be less limiting -- it is correct to write that you would prefer a shorter man. Set boundaries like Shomer Shabbos and Mitzvos, honesty and a person with no criminal past. These boundaries are commendable but forget physical limitations. What happens if the man is 5'6" limps and is deaf and not intelligent? Define your real important goals -- maybe the limit is OK but a wheelchair too much to handle?

I don't think that many men over 57 to 60 etc. would try to start dating you on Frumster. However a 14 to 16 year age difference at 39 should not be ruled out.Too many women remain unmarried because of the upper age limit. What happens is that their age increases each year with no man.

Ugh. Is he right? Do I need to date men 15 years older than I am?
Copyright (c) "Ayelet Survivor"


  1. I agree 100%. As I have been telling you continuously, avoid the superficial criteria that might rule out a wonderful man, and go for substance.
    Second, although I myself am short, I think you are limiting yourself with the height requirement. Not many are so tall anyway.
    Finally, it's unfortunately true that a 50-ish guy is going to look for and find a 32-35 ish woman. Or even 28-36. That's the way it is. Men in their 50's don't have to be creepy old farts (I got the impression you felt that way). They can be athletic, healthy, funny, wise, calm, open-minded, caring, etc.
    It's not any more of a humiliating compromise on your part than it would be for them to date you.

  2. To quote an earlier bit of advice: stop breastfeeding!

    What I mean to say is: Worry about the particulars once you meet a live guy. In the meantime stop soliciting advice and trust yourself. To quote the language in your post: you don't ''need'' to do anything. It is up to you.

    I agree with your friend that it is good to be open minded but your gut will tell you if you are comfortable with a given person.

  3. The Almighty runs the world. If your zivug is 15 years older than you, he'll find you whether or not you posted an age limitation on Frumster. Don't worry. You'll fall in love with him. Frumster is just our way of putting in a reasonable effort at finding our zivug. Take advice from one or two people you respect and understand you, and then don't agonize over it.

    Helpful tips on finding your zivug:

    #1. Have patience and trust God.
    #2. Pray for others who are looking. Make a list and daven for them every day.
    #3. Do something (that's halachically permissible, of course) that you think is irrational to help find your zivug.
    #4. Make sure you have life goals that direct your actions, not dating. In other words, your life goals lead your life, dating is something that you do on the side until you find your zivug.
    #5 Put yourself in places where decent prospects are, shul functions, Federation fundraisers, Jewish food pantry volunteering, JCC exercise room etc.

  4. Ayelet: I don't think you need to be dating 15 years up, sorry. I DO think that men who insist on dating 15 years down ARE creepy.

    Yes. Don't fool yourselves, guys, you're being creepy and you're NOT doing us women any favors, I promise you. And it certainly is a humiliating and miserable compromise. What exactly are these guys compromising on by dating 15 years down, hm? Is it that they'd prefer dating 20-25 years younger?

    Men of this ilk... woe betide you on the day of reckoning when God calls you to judgment for the way you have treated women, for the waste and pain and misery you have caused in this world, and for the terrible wounds you have inflicted on your people.

  5. "Men of this ilk... woe betide you... waste and pain... terrible wounds..." What kind of crap is that? It says a lot that "Anonymous" is anonymous, and doesn't even particularize one reason why someone over 50 is creepy for looking for a wife in her 30's. For one thing, he might want more children. We don't have a biological clock. For another, it's incredibly common and accepted. Who is "anonymous" to pass judgment - what creepy story is she hiding. How about tachlis here? I stick with facts - what is this doomsday bs?
    I do agree, however, about putting yourself in situations where you are likely to meet people without obvious pressure.

  6. Actually, Ericle, men do have a biological clock. Children born to elderly fathers have a much higher risk of schizophrenia, autism, trisomies, and other serious conditions and birth defects. And just because something is common and accepted doesn't make it right. Millions of girls around the world undergo genital mutilation because their societies believe it's acceptable to disable their sexual functioning.

    I agree with Anonymous. Men in their late 40s/early 50s should seriously consider dating and marrying women in their late 40s and early 50s. That would lead to many more marriages and much more shalom bayit than the futile pursuit of a wife of childbearing age.

  7. Hi, you don't know me from adam, but I just stumbled across your blog from dovbear, and I internet dated for years before I got married (and I met my husband through an internet dating site, and spent lots of time on jdate and some on frumster), so just thought I'd try to give a little advice since I can't help myself it seems. :)

    1)Your description of yourself is very vague and generic.

    "Smart, funny, fun, interesting."

    Ok that can describe anyone

    "A bottomless well of trivia and passion."

    I don't even know what that means. That you're good at trivial pursuit? :)

    "Not easily daunted or discouraged. Good listener, since that's what I do for a living."

    what do you do for a living, are you a psychologist or counselor of some kind? Why not just say that? The "good listener" stuff is also very generic.

    "I like going out; I like staying in."
    again, that could describe pretty much anyone

    "I love being an aunt, and I'm exceptionally good at it."

    ok this part is good at least

    "Ultimately, I think you can enjoy anything -- from the opera to grocery shopping -- if you really enjoy the company of the person you're with."

    yeah that's true for most people, but what does that say about YOU?

    Your profile could have been written by 99% of people on Frumster. What is it about you that is UNIQUE? If you give too much information away you might risk turning off some people. But chances are, you will also attract people who have the same interests as you do.

    For one, you have a blog. Now, that's intersting- you're a writer! You have opinions about things! That makes you more interesting!

    I suggest being more specific about your hobbies, background/current profession, and long term goals in life, as compatibility in those things are generally what people are looking for. It doesn't have to be long, btu if a sentence you have written could describe at least 10 people you know (like "smart funny fun etc.) then rewrite it. Be honest of course.

    You also need a good opening line, because 90% of people who read your profile will click elsewhere if the first line doesn't catch their attention. Something like "*profession*, dedicated Aunt, Jewish blogger and trivial pursuit expert" would be a HUGE improvement over "Smart, funny, fun and interesting" :) And if you are funny and interesting, don't tell people that, SHOW it by having a funny and interesting profile. :)

    My opening paragraph from my okcupid profile was: "I have the tendency to be the opposite of what you're expecting. Unless you expect me to be a dirty hippie, in which case i'm exactly what you're expecting. These days I tend to be in disguise...I sold out and cut my dreadlocks off to teach sociology to college students."

    Of course that would probably not be appropriate for an orthodox website, but you get the idea.

  8. 2) the stuff you describe you want in a guy is laundry list of physical/mental characteristics. What if a guy is 5 8? Would you really not date him? Is that a deal breaker? Cause someone who is 5 8 will look at your list and be like "well, she won't date me, I shouldn't even bother." What about someone who is 11 years older than you? Or younger than you? That stuff is just too specific/list-y...and you never know, my friend married a guy 15 years older then her (she was 25 he was 40) but they are just about the most perfect and happy couple I know.

    But you say nothing about the stuff that is actually important. Would you be willing to date a guy divorced/with kids (if not, you should say so)? Do you want kids/want to date a guy who wants kids/don't want kids/want to date a guy who doesn't want kids (sorry to harp on the kids thing, but at your age most guys will be wondering about that stuff). Do you want someone who will have a big career and you will quit your job and stay home? Do you want someone who works 90 hours a week and who you will never see? Or is it important to you to find someone who is supportive of your career and is willing to share in the housework with you? Or to find someone who has their own interests and is willing to give you space to have time to do your own thing?

    As for the "not taking himself seriously" thing, I know what you mean, but maybe you can reword it say something like "Laid back" or "self-depreciating humor is a plus."

    Also it might be useful to word things as a "plus" rather then a rule. At the end of my old profile I put something like "Bonus points for liking the grateful dead, being devastatingly intelligent and/or having a sarcastic sense of humor." Then you can list the truly important things such as "must be shomer shabbas/kosher" earlier on and have being short/close to your age as a "plus"

    Anyways, I hope this helps to some extent :)

  9. excellent feedback, Abandoning Eden -- but I think I'll leave the blogging (and the diagnosis) out of my profile ;)